The Catholic Message Board

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:48 pm Be aware that the priest may have inherited the situation with the banners and no altar rail, and that he may have other things to address, or the trust of parishioners to gain.

I get that. Architecture is hard to overcome without a tremendous budget. But how hard could it be to chase away the guitar-whangers and army of extraordinary ministers that seem to crawl out of the woodwork?

It's not just architecture; it's parish culture, which can't be turned on a dime.

This may be an unpopular opinion but the guitar Mass is preferable to the piano Mass since strings are preferable to percussion.

Riverboat wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 4:14 pm

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:48 pm Be aware that the priest may have inherited the situation with the banners and no altar rail, and that he may have other things to address, or the trust of parishioners to gain.

I get that. Architecture is hard to overcome without a tremendous budget. But how hard could it be to chase away the guitar-whangers and army of extraordinary ministers that seem to crawl out of the woodwork?

Chase away what the Church introduced for the express purpose of encouraging "the full participation of the laity" which is what Vatican II decreed? I do not think you understand the source of the "problems" you are complaining about.

I usually attend the Stroke Malabar Mass. I have gone for the Roman NO Mass. There is no EF/TLM here.

I used to attend the TLM, now I attend the NO, and actually prefer it when properly done.

Jack3 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 10:00 pm I usually attend the Stroke Malabar Mass. I have gone for the Roman NO Mass. There is no EF/TLM here.

Stroke? Did auto-correct strike again?

Right

I made my first Holy Communion at the old Mass but haven't been to one since the change when I was 9.

I was in 6th. grade when Vat II ended. For 5 years we had the old Mass in English. I was in 11th. grade when the new Mass was instituted. I don't have access to the old Mass, but if I did, I could go either way. I'm AC/DC in that regard.

And that's what we called them: Old Mass (or Old Latin Mass) vs. New Mass. In fact a friend of mine in college made a parody to "Won't Get Fooled Again". I only remember the end. Rather than

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

the new lyrics were,

Meet the new Mass
Same as the old Mass

Doom wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 4:13 pm
Chase away what the Church introduced for the express purpose of encouraging "the full participation of the laity" which is what Vatican II decreed? I do not think you understand the source of the "problems" you are complaining about.

How do a Latin liturgy and communion rails discourage "full participation of the laity"?

Riverboat wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 11:04 am

Doom wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 4:13 pm
Chase away what the Church introduced for the express purpose of encouraging "the full participation of the laity" which is what Vatican II decreed? I do not think you understand the source of the "problems" you are complaining about.

How do a Latin liturgy and communion rails discourage "full participation of the laity"?

you suggested getting rid of lay readers and eucharistic ministers, these are the things that were introduced to try to fulfill Vatican II’s request for the “full participation of the laity”

EMHCs were not introduced to encourage lay participation.

Doom wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 2:47 pm
you suggested getting rid of lay readers and eucharistic ministers

Lay readers, no; extraordinary ministers, yes. "Extraordinary" understood as in "outside the norm." My parish does not have them as there is no need for them. Don't forget the bongos and banjos.

Doom wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 2:47 pm you suggested getting rid of lay readers and eucharistic ministers, these are the things that were introduced to try to fulfill Vatican II’s request for the “full participation of the laity”

They're features of the Montini-Bugnini rite, not the Roman Rite that the Council sought to reform.

Why do you use language like that? "Montini-Bugatti rite? That doesn't sound respectful at all. You can call it the Novus Ordo, the Mass of Paul VI, theM Mass of Vatican II, any number of things, but to call the Pope by his given name like that (Montini) instead of his regnal name, is almost never done in a respectful way.

Doom wrote: ↑Sat Sep 02, 2023 3:24 pm Why do you use language like that? "Montini-Bugatti rite? That doesn't sound respectful at all. You can call it the Novus Ordo, the Mass of Paul VI, theM Mass of Vatican II, any number of things, but to call the Pope by his given name like that (Montini) instead of his regnal name, is almost never done in a respectful way.

Well, it's not "the Mass of Vatican II" since the Council didn't foresee the creation of a wholly new rite, but only the revision of the Roman Rite, but also: it's not necessarily disrespectful to refer to a Pope by his surname, and "Paul VI/Bugnini rite" sounds weird.