The Catholic Message Board

My wife's sister works in administration at Wisconsin Lutheran College and she stated, about 3 years back, that colleges were needing to get ready for the student enrollment drop off that is about to hit.

The college I graduated from, St. Norbert College, has been in local news as the current President cut faculty positions and programs. Some up in arms over this because.... who knows.

Within the past two years two colleges near me have closed: Silver Lake College (Catholic) and Cardinal Stritch College (Catholic). And these closures were decisions that came quickly.


To add to the issue, white males are not enrolling in college as much. From Pew Research, men make up 42% of students enrolled at 4 year colleges, in 2011 that was 47%.

I read an article a couple of months back by a woman that essentially said men don't attend college as much anymore because they don't feel as welcomed. The article was from about 3 years ago. Her sentiment was essentially "good riddance". If you don't feel welcomed, maybe you're not... and maybe it's because of what you represent. She was very excited that the college make-up was being more female. I'm curious how many feel this way.

The way I look at it is: good, don't attend a 4 year liberal arts college. If you can find another way to earn money, provide for a family that doesn't entail a huge bill and an institution that brands you as the villain.... great. To the women (and men) that cheer on the fact that less men are attending: enjoy traveling greater distances.

It's an effect of the baby-bust and of the growing realization that many people don't need a college degree to pursue what they want in life. At least, they don't need to assume crippling debt.

I am not sure that all liberal arts colleges are anti-male, but I'm sure they exist.

The truth of the matter is that there is a college bubble that has been building for decades which is finally bursting. There are too many colleges, they are too expensive and the jobs that require a degree too scarce, to justify the load of debt, and something has got to give. The student loan system created a gravy train for colleges which is coming to an end. It may be painful, but streamlining higher education is for the best. It means fewer job opportunities for me personally, but it for the best.

Another factor is the catch-22 being enforced by employers, basically making degrees less valuable or worthless.

We hear people being told that they "got worthless degrees" when they studied liberal arts, which is a result of the catch-22.

As one with friends in "higher" education, I have an interest in this topic.

Student debt is an issue much greater than small colleges closing. However, in NM, if one graduates from a NM high school and immediately enrolls in a NM state university or college, one is exempt from tuition for four years. If one is a member of various "disadvantaged" groups, other scholarships exist ... at least one is automatically granted. The State legislature provides a major portion of the State's universities' budgets. A small college cannot compete with State subsidized education.

The liberal arts, once the foundation of a well educated citizen, have devolved into woke indoctrination.

College had been redefined as the major requisite for employment. Not true, but widely believed.

Small colleges do not offer the sex/drugs/rock n'roll appeal of huge universities.

Highlander wrote: ↑Sun Jun 08, 2025 2:47 pm

Small colleges do not offer the sex/drugs/rock n'roll appeal of huge universities.

Actually, In my experience, it is the reverse. Small colleges are much more likely to be "party schools" than big ones. This is because students use the "there is nothing to do with my money except drink it" excuse, that is literally never true on a college campus because there are always events going on, but it is easier to make that excuse at a school with a enrollment, say, of 2000 students than at one with 50,000.

I take your point. My more recent personal university information is biased ... as one child was sent off to the wilds of Canada and the other to a military academy.

My second hand information, through various university teachers/instructors/professors/whatever-they-are-calling-them-now, is that the liberal arts/business/education students have little interest in academics and are, in the main, drifting along making minimal effort. In which case, S/D/R&R are a primary concern. STEM students have a different orientation, although the woke cadre is increasingly infiltrating those fields.

HST, both experience and reporting, tell me that a university with a large commuter population contains a smaller university in the form of the resident students.

Perhaps that is more of a reflection of who the students were before they got there. Students who have a habit of having "little interest in academics and are, in the main, drifting along making minimal effort" in high school likely don't have an academic background that gets them into highly selective schools so maybe end up in larger numbers at these types of schools.

I offer that once a HS student has a decent GPA (another topic entirely -- as grade inflation has resulted in students with 5.0+ averages) and passes through the woke and DEI gatekeepers, then there is a form of selection. However, I recently read, from an anonymous Harvard prof, that a growing number of Harvard students had little interest in academics.

Harvard...that's a whole 'nother can o'worms my friend.

It is arguable that every "selective" university and college is of a kind with Harvard. The Ivy League, certainly. Select private schools and large state universities. I hear that the liberal arts at MIT and Cal Tech are pretty much the same.

Are there any liberal arts at MIT or Cal Tech? Who on earth would choose either of those schools for a liberal arts education? I am pretty front line on this with the youngest of my 7 off to college this fall.

On a somewhat related topic, there's the matter of colleges being swallowed up by other colleges. I earned a graduate degree from the University of Houston--Victoria. It was a branch operation founded in 1973 and brought a lot of culture to that town of about 50 thousand. Twice in the last ten years, a Texas A&M takeover was set in motion. The second time, in spite of my efforts, it took effect.

Let it be known that I will never let anyone refer to me as an Aggie.

Sounds like an upgrade to me. Gig 'em.

zeno wrote: ↑Sun Jun 15, 2025 3:28 pm Are there any liberal arts at MIT or Cal Tech? Who on earth would choose either of those schools for a liberal arts education? I am pretty front line on this with the youngest of my 7 off to college this fall.

During my direct and vicarious experiences with higher education, I witnessed the infiltration of STEM and business schools by the woke liberal arts cadres. Our local TVI (Technical and Vocational Institute) became the Central New Mexico (CNM) Community College, reflecting its morphing into yet another liberal arts indoctrination center. Friends who taught there reported the gradual elimination of the technical programs (automotive, machining, welding, plumbing, carpentry, etc.) and their replacement with the usual liberal arts. The motivation was to provide jobs (all part time) for liberal arts instructors and to, in the eyes of the academic activists, remove the stigma of dirty hands, grease, and oil and to elevate the school into the superior heights of the liberal arts.

One son took an EMT course at CNM. He told me that about 2/3 of the students dropped out because they were expected to work; a vocational course did not have the touchy-feely, show up when you want to; can we go over the reading assignment in class nature that prevailed in the liberal arts classes.

When I was in a MBA program, a course named "Social Responsibility in Business" was added as a required course. It was taught by some woke woman imposed by the sociology department ... she knew nothing about business. It was all about an obligation by businesses to support local and national and international woke causes.

I witnessed the addition of a "Phys/Chem" course to a local high school curriculum ... mandatory as an intro science course. Its defining characteristic was that it was math free. Yes, exactly .... math free. The justification was that women had traditionally been denied access to the sciences because, somehow, math discriminated against them. So the girls could now get a good grade in a science course without the oppression of math. It was mandatory for the boys also, as it allowed the girls to compete against them on a level playing field. We gor my sons out of it because we raised hell and because he was already enrolled in AP Chemistry.

The much shorter answer is that the traditional STEM fields and the schools that have featured them are increasingly emphasizing liberal arts and, sometimes, deemphasizing their core purpose.

That makes sense, but it is my impression that there are a few elite tech oriented schools like MIT and Cal Tech that are still pretty specialized. That doesn't mean they are immune to wokeness through things like dei, of course, and I haven't looked at those particular very closely, but I have personal experience with a top engineering school (private) that requires almost zero liberal arts courses. They are too deep into their specialty to have time to waste on that nonsense. I would expect similar for other top tier engineering schools like the two specifically mentioned here.

ETA In no way to I mean to suggest all liberal arts are nonsense - I was referring specifically to the far left propaganda type courses that have proliferated on many campuses.

I should have consulted Google before posting. According to Google there are a few tech oriented colleges with minimal liberal arts requirements, but Cal Tech and MIT are not among them. So if you are looking for a tech school that's "all business" (if you will) I would cross those two off the list, at least for undergrad. Little bit of a rabbit hole I guess but there we are...

Highlander wrote: ↑Sun Jun 15, 2025 2:19 pm I offer that once a HS student has a decent GPA (another topic entirely -- as grade inflation has resulted in students with 5.0+ averages) and passes through the woke and DEI gatekeepers, then there is a form of selection. However, I recently read, from an anonymous Harvard prof, that a growing number of Harvard students had little interest in academics.

All it takes to get a degree from Harvard or other IVY League University is to be the son/daughter of a famous, rich alum, then you don't have to do anything, including show up to class, to get a "Gentleman's C" (although these days, it is probably more likely "A Gentlemen's A"), and literally no one except Harvard alumni (or replace Harvard with any other IVY League school) is impressed by a degree from Harvard.

zeno wrote: ↑Mon Jun 16, 2025 2:34 pm... there are a few tech oriented colleges with minimal liberal arts requirements...

One son attended West Point and received an engineering degree. Fitted his personality and interests. A minimum, but not an absence, of woke. However, more recently, even the military academies have become infected by the DEI virus.

Yes, that is true.