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So -- San Bernardino Bishop Alberto Rojas has excused Catholics from attending Sunday mass due to immigration raids and detentions. Is this akin to excusing, say, burglers from attending Mass due to fear of being arrested by local police?

I don't get it. Is this politics or is this a position of the Church?

Politics.

Highlander wrote: ↑Thu Jul 10, 2025 1:16 pm So -- San Bernardino Bishop Alberto Rojas has excused Catholics from attending Sunday mass due to immigration raids and detentions. Is this akin to excusing, say, burglers from attending Mass due to fear of being arrested by local police?

I don't get it. Is this politics or is this a position of the Church?

I would say it's more akin to Catholics providing faked documents to Jews to hide them from the Gestapo.

You really have no idea what is going on here. Your ignorance is glaring.

Stella wrote: ↑Fri Jul 11, 2025 8:07 pm

Highlander wrote: ↑Thu Jul 10, 2025 1:16 pm So -- San Bernardino Bishop Alberto Rojas has excused Catholics from attending Sunday mass due to immigration raids and detentions. Is this akin to excusing, say, burglers from attending Mass due to fear of being arrested by local police?

I don't get it. Is this politics or is this a position of the Church?

I would say it's more akin to Catholics providing faked documents to Jews to hide them from the Gestapo.

Did they do that because they were upset that they lost federal money? I would say your statement is an example of the kind of dishonest propaganda that were produced against the Jews, the Big Lie in action.

In his explanation of the decision Bishop Rojas cites Can. 87 "A diocesan bishop, whenever he judges that it contributes to their spiritual good, is able to dispense the faithful from universal and particular disciplinary laws issued for his territory or his subjects by the supreme authority of the Church."

The concern is for the spiritual good of the parishioners. The bishop would be well aware of the circumstances in his diocese being that 1 in 5 of the population is foreign born.

No grounds for comparing ICE agents to Nazis, regardless of the reasoning.

Another example would be Catholic Priests in the Philippines hiding drug addicts being rounded up by Duterte's drug war to receive the death penalty.

Still no grounds for comparing ICE agents to Nazis.

The main point is that all civil authorities listed were enacting an unjust, inhumane law and the Church has a canon law response regarding unjust laws.

Stella wrote: ↑Sat Jul 12, 2025 11:29 pm Another example would be Catholic Priests in the Philippines hiding drug addicts being rounded up by Duterte's drug war to receive the death penalty.

Protecting violent criminals is stupid and puts both the priests and the parishioners at risk. It is an excellent example of "toxoc empathy"

Stella wrote: ↑Sun Jul 13, 2025 4:20 am The main point is that all civil authorities listed were enacting an unjust, inhumane law and the Church has a canon law response regarding unjust laws.

Deporting illegals is following the law. Legal immigration averages 1 million people each year. That's about 1/3 of the number that are born here each year. Anyone who wants to come here can do so legally. Illegals should be deported.

Stella wrote: ↑Sun Jul 13, 2025 4:20 am The main point is that all civil authorities listed were enacting an unjust, inhumane law and the Church has a canon law response regarding unjust laws.

Do you lock your door at night? If you came home and found several people had broken into your home and were claiming that they now lived there and told you that it is your responsibility to feed them, clothe them, and pay for their medical care, would you assume that responsibility without complaint? Remember, if you ask them to leave your house, you are just like Hitler.

If not, isn't it dishonest and hypocritical for you to demand American taxpayers do so forever and ever world without end amen?

I know, I know, illegal immigrants "do the jobs Americans won't do", cheif among those is voting Democrat.

Still no grounds for equating ICE agents with Nazis.

zeno wrote: ↑Sun Jul 13, 2025 3:04 pm Still no grounds for equating ICE agents with Nazis.

The fact that she says that is more a sign of anti-Americanism than pro-immigrant sentiment. Most people would regard Hitler as a uniquely evil person to whom few in history could compare. Others, demagogues mostly, regard Hitler as the basement, the first insult you toss out towards any idea or person you disagree with. I think we know now where Stella resides.

Doom wrote: ↑Sun Jul 13, 2025 1:02 pm

Stella wrote: ↑Sun Jul 13, 2025 4:20 am The main point is that all civil authorities listed were enacting an unjust, inhumane law and the Church has a canon law response regarding unjust laws.

Do you lock your door at night? If you came home and found several people had broken into your home and were claiming that they now lived there and told you that it is your responsibility to feed them, clothe them, and pay for their medical care, would you assume that responsibility without complaint? Remember, if you ask them to leave your house, you are just like Hitler.

If not, isn't it dishonest and hypocritical for you to demand American taxpayers do so forever and ever world without end amen?

It's how you look at and regard people that distinguishes a Christian view of them as opposed to a purely secular view of them. My previous references where to compare immigrants with the Jews, not the government to Hitler. If burglars had broken into my house I'd call the police but if someone being pursued or needing protection came in for safety, I'd do whatever I could to help them. Pope Francis and Pope Leo have both cautioned against viewing immigrants as criminals and ask us to regard them as people with stories and needs.

Even the Vatican has imposed stiff fines and penalties for anyone who enters illegally. What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

anawim wrote: ↑Sun Jul 13, 2025 4:27 pm Even the Vatican has imposed stiff fines and penalties for anyone who enters illegally. What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

If people enter with nefarious motives then rightly so but the Vatican has provided refuge such as for some Syrians in 2016. Francis also established shelters within the Vatican in unused buildings ie. Palace of the Poor and Gift of Mercy House, for homeless people who are supported there.

For a 'city' of 825 people the Vatican is very accommodating of strangers.

Stella wrote: ↑Sun Jul 13, 2025 4:38 pm

anawim wrote: ↑Sun Jul 13, 2025 4:27 pm Even the Vatican has imposed stiff fines and penalties for anyone who enters illegally. What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

If people enter with nefarious motives then rightly so but the Vatican has provided refuge such as for some Syrians in 2016. Francis also established shelters within the Vatican in unused buildings ie. Palace of the Poor and Gift of Mercy House, for homeless people who are supported there.

For a 'city' of 825 people the Vatican is very accommodating of strangers.

You need to learn the actual teaching of the Church rather than the clichéd liberal idea that nations are not allowed to have a border but are supposed to just allow anyone in with absolutely no vetting and never deport them under any circumstances no matter how many violent crimes they may commit or if we discover that they are here for malicious intent.

All 19 of the 9-11 hijackers were here on a student visa, and every single one of them raised eyebrows from people they met, many people were concerned that they had sinister intent, which they did, but nothing was done because of the frankly asinne assumption that it would be "racist" to raise the alarm about their suspicious behavior.

Your kind of thinking led directly to mass murder.

Read Rerum Novarum, Pope Leo XIII confirms that a nation has the right to defend its borders, and that immigrants have to obey the laws of the countries they migrate to. The Church does not have the naive "Immigrants are always perfect little angels who are better than us" mentality of many modern liberal bishops.