The Catholic Message Board

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news ... y-platform

NYT reported that this was coming:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/28/us/p ... =url-share

There are friends of mine who are absolute single issue voters, they have told me that they will not vote in November because of this news. (If only pro-life people would look at the ASP, sigh).

Who are the other candidates for most pro-life President ever?

Kage_ar wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2024 1:28 pm (If only pro-life people would look at the ASP, sigh).

I wish we in Australia had an alternative like the American Solidarity Party! It's platform accords with every tenet of Catholicism prolife stance. Every tenet. But I still see Catholics on Twitter cutting up the platform down political lines to dismiss it. Such a real shame.

Ed Feser shared this link to a short piece by 'conservative intellectual' Robert George.

https://currentpub.com/2024/07/09/conse ... -platform/

peregrinator wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2024 2:25 pm Who are the other candidates for most pro-life President ever?

44 of them

Kage_ar wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 7:00 am

peregrinator wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2024 2:25 pm Who are the other candidates for most pro-life President ever?

44 of them

Oh, OK, so you're not being serious, I thought you might have an actual argument.

I am being serious, when the title has been raised "Most Pro-Life President Ever", that means every other one is less in comparison.

Easily President Reagan for his abortion bonafides when he enacted the Hyde Amendment and the ban on fetal tissue experimentation, at the same time he was very pro-death penalty.

Ronald Reagan also signed the bill making abortion legal in California for the first time (1967).

zeno wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:54 pm Ronald Reagan also signed the bill making abortion legal in California for the first time (1967).

Not the last of the Republican Presidents who changed their public stand on abortion

Kage_ar wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:48 pm I am being serious, when the title has been raised "Most Pro-Life President Ever", that means every other one is less in comparison.

Sure, but there are some that can be eliminated immediately - Clinton, Obama, Biden for example. And pre-Roe v. Wade presidents can't really be compared.

Easily President Reagan for his abortion bonafides when he enacted the Hyde Amendment and the ban on fetal tissue experimentation, at the same time he was very pro-death penalty.

The death penalty is pro-life, but Reagan also didn't have a great record appointing justices to the Supreme Court. He was about 50-50 there, just like Bush and Bush II.

peregrinator wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:49 pm

Kage_ar wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:48 pm I am being serious, when the title has been raised "Most Pro-Life President Ever", that means every other one is less in comparison.

Sure, but there are some that can be eliminated immediately - Clinton, Obama, Biden for example. And pre-Roe v. Wade presidents can't really be compared.

Easily President Reagan for his abortion bonafides when he enacted the Hyde Amendment and the ban on fetal tissue experimentation, at the same time he was very pro-death penalty.

The death penalty is pro-life, but Reagan also didn't have a great record appointing justices to the Supreme Court. He was about 50-50 there, just like Bush and Bush II.

You and I could likely debate death-penalty til our faces fall off

(A) Yes, his first administration was pretty clearly the most pro-life presidential administration ever, and obviously had the greatest impact by way of his judicial appointments. But that wasn't the only pro-life stuff going on in Trump I.

(B) As to the new language, it's still largely pro-life though obviously far from perfect. We've had this discussion here before, and there's nothing much more to say about it. Trump is pro-IVF, pro-contraception, etc. That doesn't make him not mostly pro-life, it makes him confused and politically motivated. You're not going to win the anti-IVF point in the American public mind right now, and he's not interested in trying to fight that losing fight. I'm not happy about it, but his record is clear: he will continue to appoint good judges and his administration will continue to push more or less good policies. Single issue voters should note that abortion is the most important, but the trans agenda, particularly the mutilation and drugging of children, is hardly something to ignore. There's no question about Trump's administration pushing for more or less the right stuff on that score.

(C) Whether he's the most pro-life president EVER isn't really relevant to November. Is he VASTLY more pro-life than Biden? Is there any question about that? I've said this before--in 2016, I couldn't vote for either candidate, because I didn't believe a word Trump said about his alleged pro-life conversion. After his first administration, it was clear that whatever his own personal convictions may be (if indeed he has any), he had a very solid team around him and did excellent work. My vote for him in 2020 was enthusiastic, as it will be this fall. I had hoped for a different Republican nominee, but that's not how it played out. Trump's the guy, and he deserves pro-life votes. ASP, of which I am officially a member, is not a player and will not be a player in this election.

so well said ... gherkin for VP

Kage_ar wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2024 10:54 am You and I could likely debate death-penalty til our faces fall off

Well in any case it's not fair to judge 80s Reagan on the basis of something that was formulated by Pope John Paul II in 1995.

He appointed 3 SCOTUS judges who, along with the other judges, struck down Roe V Wade. That was very pro-life.

Since then he waffled. The Republican party goose stepped to the left on abortion.

BobCatholic wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2024 11:24 pm He appointed 3 SCOTUS judges who, along with the other judges, struck down Roe V Wade. That was very pro-life.

Since then he waffled. The Republican party goose stepped to the left on abortion.

The precise actions of someone who does not have deep personal belief, who sways to the winds of polling and PACS.

Kage_ar wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 10:20 am

BobCatholic wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2024 11:24 pm He appointed 3 SCOTUS judges who, along with the other judges, struck down Roe V Wade. That was very pro-life.

Since then he waffled. The Republican party goose stepped to the left on abortion.

The precise actions of someone who does not have deep personal belief, who sways to the winds of polling and PACS.

Sure, kind of like how Biden has moved very far to the left on abortion in the last 50 years?

peregrinator wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 12:13 pm

Kage_ar wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2024 10:20 am

BobCatholic wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2024 11:24 pm He appointed 3 SCOTUS judges who, along with the other judges, struck down Roe V Wade. That was very pro-life.

Since then he waffled. The Republican party goose stepped to the left on abortion.

The precise actions of someone who does not have deep personal belief, who sways to the winds of polling and PACS.

Sure, kind of like how Biden has moved very far to the left on abortion in the last 50 years?

The good ole "he did it first" debate.

There are many politicians, humans in other careers, who have changed their positions due to something other than deep, personal belief. I have not read any books about Mr Biden (or by Mr Biden), I have only watched one documentary and it was long before he ran for president. Right now, I am studying the political history of Hilary Clinton, I have Biden on my "to do" list. I will trust your reading on that one!

I'm not saying "Biden did it first", I'm saying that politicians in general aren't principled. And you don't have to read a book, Biden's views on abortion are part of the public record:

https://www.washingtonian.com/1974/06/0 ... rican-boy/

When it comes to civil rights and civil liberties, I’m a liberal but that’s it. I’m really quite conservative on most other issues. My wife said I was the most socially conservative man she had ever known. I’m a screaming liberal when it comes to senior citizens because I really think they are getting screwed. I’m a liberal on health care because I believe it is a birth right of every human being—not just some damn privilege to be meted out to a few people. But when it comes to issues like abortion, amnesty, and acid, I’m about as liberal as your grandmother. I don’t like the Supreme Court decision on abortion. I think it went too far. I don’t think that a woman has the sole right to say what should happen to her body. I support a limited amnesty, and I don’t think marijuana should be legalized.