The Catholic Message Board

Found this one at a small bookstore. Bought it with a few others, but it probably would be tossed on the pile and not touched for a while.

A couple of weeks later my neighbor's father died and left her with a large number of books. Some worth a decent amount which she sold. There was a remnant of titles that she said I could pick from for free. One of them, "Conquest of Mexico".... What were the chances? I had never heard of the book before and in a span of 2 weeks I've come across it twice.

The version my neighbor had is incredible: very enjoyable illustrations done by Miguel Covarrubias. The introduction in this edition, done by a Harry Block, is kind of a foil. Though he praises the book's narrative style he trashes its attitude and history.

But, that narrative style... woah. Even the buildup regarding the legislative style of the Aztecs and Tezcucans is fascinating. This Prescott has a way with words. Looking at the reviews on Amazon and Goodreads it's clearly a very well-known book.

Not that far into it yet... but if the author can make the climate zones, judicial system, and the feudal setup interesting I can only imagine what he does with the actual conquest of Mexico.

On the dissimilarities between the Aztecs and Tezcucans in comparison to the tribes of northern America:

Enough has been said, however, to show that the Aztec and Tezcucan races were advanced in civilization very far beyond the wandering tribes of North America. The degree of civilization which they had reached, as inferred by their political institutions, may be considered, perhaps, not much short of that enjoyed by our Saxon ancestors under Alfred. In respect to the nature of it, they may be better compared with the Egyptians; and the examination of their social relations and culture may suggest still stronger points of resemblance to that ancient people.

There's been a certain attitude that Precott has taken towards Christianity that, while not unflattering, seems to make some of it's accepted distinguished contributions to the world as being not as exceptional. Case in point:

I must not omit to notice here an institution the introduction of which in the Old World is ranked among the beneficent fruits of Christianity. Hospitals were established in the principal cities, for the cure of the sick and the permanent refuge of the disabled soldier; and surgeons were placed over them, “who were so far better than those in Europe,” says an old chronicler, “that they did not protract the cure in order to increase the pay.”

Protract the cure in order to increase the pay? Possibly. Though it sounds like an axe grinding comment. At any rate, I've heard it stated similarly with Rome that, while some like to think of the hospital and true care for the poor is unique to Christianity, they too already had hospitals to provide "cure of the sick".... and then the debate that it really only was for soldiers to get them healthy to fight again (or reward for great service). Not an institution to tend for the needs of the sick common man.

In the edition I'm reading there is "Book 1: Introduction. View of the Aztec Civilization".

Some interesting claims are made by Prescott.
With respects to the afterlife there are 3 possibilities for mankind: eternal darkness (albeit, with no torture), something akin to Dante's first level of hell for the virtuous pagans where people will "enjoy a negative existence of indolent contentment", and a place for heroes who fell in battle, "They passed at once, into the presence of the Sun, whom they accompanied with songs and choral dances, in his bright progress through the heavens"... "and after some years, their spirits were to animate clouds and singing bird"....

Regarding the place of eternal darkness:

In the destiny they assigned to the wicked, we discern similar traces of refinement; since the absence of all physical torture forms a striking contrast to the schemes of suffering so ingeniously devised by the fancies of the most enlightened nations. In all this, so contrary to the natural suggestions of the ferocious Aztec, we see the evidences of a higher civilization, inherited from their predecessors in the land.

A little dig at Christianity.

But I was left thinking... Prescott got this information from "old chroniclers". But where did they get their information from? Hieroglyphics. All of that detailed information can be gleaned from hieroglyphics? Maybe.

But alittle further on there is another example of the apparent unexceptional nature of Christianity:

A more extraordinary coincidence may be traced with Christian rites, in the ceremony of naming their children. The lips and bosom of the infant were sprinkled with water, and “the Lord was implored to permit the holy drops to wash away the sin that was given to it before the foundation of the world; so that the child might be born anew.” We are reminded of Christian morals, in more than one of their prayers, in which they used regular forms. “Wilt thou blot us out, O Lord, forever? Is this punishment intended, not for our reformation, but for our destruction?” Again, “Impart to us, out of thy great mercy, thy gifts, which we are not worthy to receive through our own merits.” “Keep peace with all,” says another petition; “bear injuries with humility; God, who sees, will avenge you.” But the most striking parallel with Scripture is in the remarkable declaration that “he who looks too curiously on a woman commits adultery with his eyes.” These pure and elevated maxims, it is true, are mixed up with others of a puerile, and even brutal, character, arguing that confusion of the moral perceptions which is natural in the twilight of civilization. One would not expect, however, to meet, in such a state of society, with doctrines as sublime as any inculcated by the enlightened codes of ancient philosophy.

Reading this had me wondering why I had never come across this position before from atheists when I was deeply engaged in those debates. Not enough to invalidate the claims of Christianity, but a strong enough parallel that I could easily see being exploited to make Christianity seem more ho-hum than earth-reforming.

As I mentioned I had two editions of this book. I'm reading an older one. The more recent one has a copyright date of 1934. Paging through both books I noticed that the more recent edition has completely omitted Book 1. I went back to that introduction by Carl Van Doren.

Carl Van Doren states:

Prescott made it long by including a first part on Aztec civilization and a third part on the subsequent career of Cortez. These parts are not necessary to the larger body of readers for whom this present book has been undertaken. Although Prescott put as much into his account of Aztec life and customs as anybody in his day knew or could know, so much as since then been discovered about them that his first part is no longer so valuable as it was.

It calls to question his sources in making those claims above...

The theme of Catholic un-exceptionalism is consistent in the 1st book.

Regarding confession:

The great cities were divided into districts, placed under the charge of a sort of parochial clergy, who regulated every act of religion within their precincts. It is remarkable that they administered the rites of confession and absolution. The secrets of the confessional were held inviolable, and penances were imposed of much the same kind as those enjoined in the Roman Catholic Church. There were two remarkable peculiarities in the Aztec ceremony. The first was, that, as the repetition of an offence once atoned for was deemed inexpiable, confession was made but once in a man’s life, and was usually deferred to a late period of it, when the penitent unburdened his conscience and settled at once the long arrears of iniquity. Another peculiarity was, that priestly absolution was received in place of the legal punishment of offences, and authorized an acquittal in case of arrest.

Again - how this information was gleaned by the "old chroniclers" is beyond me.

The Project Gutenberg version of the book does have footnotes. But for some of these bold claims there simply isn't any. Regarding deferring confession to "a late period"; the footnote just states how Emperor Constantine deferred his baptism until late in life.

It's almost like reading Gibbon. It seems too driven on this parallel aim of quelling the uniqueness of the Church.

Curiosity lead me to see if I could find more on Prescott's relationship with Catholicism.

From a Guardian article from 2011: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... rign-devil...

Prescott advised Protestants to write the histories of Catholic countries. It is, he wrote, "interesting employment for the inhabitants of a free country, flourishing under the influence of a benign religion, to contemplate the degradation to which human nature may be reduced when oppressed by arbitrary power and papal superstition".

Yeah - that seems to make sense that he'd have this sentiment given the comments in the book.

From a wikipedia article on William H Prescott:

Historian Richard Kagan has identified "Prescott's Paradigm" as a 19th-century interpretive model first fully articulated by Prescott. It argues that Spain's early modern 'decline' and subsequent 'torpor' was a product of its religious bigotry and political despotism. The Prescott Paradigm was dominant in 20th century American historiography, but was showing signs of decline by the 1990s.

"Kagan wrote:"

What I call "Prescott's paradigm" is an understanding of Spain as the antithesis of the United States. Most of the elements contained in this paradigm—anti-Catholicism, criticism of absolutism, support for commerce and individual liberty—were to be found in the work of other writers, but Prescott bundled them into a single package that offered a means of approaching Spanish history through the lens of that of U.S. history.

I read this almost 30 years ago. All I really remember is I enjoyed it.

I lived in Peru from the age of ten. My mother wanted us to get the maximum amount of education from the experience. She bought us all the books, from Prescot to Garcilaso de La Vega (whose mother was an Inca princess.) I read them all -- several times over.

We lived in Piura, the oldest European town in South America -- and it hadn't changed since Pizzaro rode out the front gate.