Where Goes Leo?

[Stella]

I read the above with interest.

I also read an article that proposed that Leo is focused (among other things, I imagine) on the renewal within the Church. Vocations, the Orders, youth.

I perked up with the Orders being mentioned. I wonder if the women's orders have become a thing of the past -- another casualty of feminism and the triumph of secularism.

Other than the speech he gave in his first week outlining his agenda, we have no idea what he will focus on. Neither does he frankly, the primary job of a Pope, just like the primary job of a president or prime minister, is to respond to "events." But more importantly, a Pope, or even a local bishop, shouldn't come right out of the gate and try to change everything. He needs to spend some time getting acclimated to being Pope and figure out what needs to be done. And he is relatively young for a Pope, he could live another 20-25 years, there is no need for speed. The first encyclical is usually around the 6-month mark, which will give more of an indication of specific direction.

Doom, we can get the clear sense of Pope Leo's direction through his almost daily messages, audiences, homilies which are all posted to the Holy See website as they happen and reported by Vatican news. In my last post I was posting what Leo had said on that day about his commitment to the goals of Pope Francis and Vatican II. You can keep up to date with everything by following the calendar on the website.

https://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiv/ ... 025/6.html

[Highlander]

Go to Rome and you will be amazed at the large number of habited (and young) nuns you see. While less common in the US there are orders such as the Dominican Sisters of Mary, Mother of the Eucharit that are thriving.

Good point. Rome did have a goodly number of nuns. When last there, our hotel backed up to a convent and we would watch the nuns water the plants each morning. Round here, I can't recall the last time I saw a nun...excepting at Mass where one or both of our Religious Teachers Filippini, who head our school, sometimes appear.

[Doom]

Doom, we can get a clear sense of Pope Leo's direction through his almost daily messages, audiences, and homilies which are all posted to the Holy See website as they happen and reported by Vatican news.

False, one absolutely cannot discern what kind of Pope he is going to be by reading his homilies. That is like claiming that you discern how I act at home or work based on what I post on this board.

To give just a few examples,


How is he going to handle the problem with the Chinese Church and Francis' frankly foolish agreement with the Chinese government?

What about the poor finances of the Vatican City State, which is burdened with massive debt and tainted with financial scandal?

How is he going to handle Francis' suppression of the Latin Mass? Francis removed a bishop in France who had great success bringing young converts into the Church through the Latin Mass.. Francis complained that he was "bringing too many people into the Church" and removed him as bishop. Will Leo restore him?

How is he going to handle the whole issue of synodality, and is he going to continue Francis' radical plan to strip the bishops of their power and replace it with a quasi-democracy of the laity?

Is he going to make an effort to attempt to reconcile with bishops Vigano and Strickland, who seem to have endorsed sedevacantism?

Is Leo going to continue Francis's style of authoritarianism, or will he restore collegiality and follow the Vatican II model of sharing responsibility with the bishops and the Cardinals, as his predecessors did?

Good luck trying to figure out how he is going to handle these and other pressing issues by reading his homilies.

[peregrinator]

Just like the last 4 Popes, Leo is a moderate

The idea that Francis was a moderate is risible.

[Doom]

Just like the last 4 Popes, Leo is a moderate

The idea that Francis was a moderate is risible.

You sure seem to like that word.

He was a moderate; he alienated the left by being too far to the right, and he alienated the right by being too far to the left. Classic evidence of someone in the middle of the road.

And it is easy to forget that in some ways he was more traditional than Benedict, for example, in one of his rare radical moves, Benedict dropped the traditional Papal title of "Patriach of the West", but Francis brought it back

[Stella]

Doom, we can get a clear sense of Pope Leo's direction through his almost daily messages, audiences, and homilies which are all posted to the Holy See website as they happen and reported by Vatican news.

False, one absolutely cannot discern what kind of Pope he is going to be by reading his homilies. That is like claiming that you discern how I act at home or work based on what I post on this board.

To give just a few examples,


How is he going to handle the problem with the Chinese Church and Francis' frankly foolish agreement with the Chinese government?

Pope Leo has also taken some concrete measures indicating continuation. With China for example...https://press.vatican.va/content/salast ... 0611d.html


ABC news Australia reports on 24 May “A new Chinese bishop has been installed by Pope Leo XIV, signalling that a controversial Vatican accord with Beijing over Catholic bishop appointments will continue under his papacy.

Bishop Joseph Lin Yuntuan, 73, was appointed by Leo as an assistant in Fuzhou, the capital of Fujian province.

The announcement was made within the framework of a diplomatic deal originally struck in 2018 that gives Chinese officials some input into papal appointments.”

[Jack3]

By Papal standards, Paul VI was a radical

Can you explain further please

[Stella]

Doom, we can get a clear sense of Pope Leo's direction through his almost daily messages, audiences, and homilies which are all posted to the Holy See website as they happen and reported by Vatican news.

False, one absolutely cannot discern what kind of Pope he is going to be by reading his homilies. That is like claiming that you discern how I act at home or work based on what I post on this board.

To give just a few examples, ...

How is he going to handle the whole issue of synodality, and is he going to continue Francis' radical plan to strip the bishops of their power and replace it with a quasi-democracy of the laity?

Last Thursday he addressed synodality here...

"Pope Francis has given a new impetus to the Synod of Bishops, referring, as he has repeatedly stated, to Saint Paul VI . And the legacy he has left us seems to me to be above all this: that synodality is a style, an attitude that helps us to be Church , promoting authentic experiences of participation and communion.

During his pontificate, Pope Francis brought this concept forward in the various Synodal Assemblies, especially those on the family , and then brought it to fruition in the latest journey, dedicated precisely to synodality .

The Synod of Bishops naturally retains its institutional physiognomy, and at the same time is enriched by the fruits that have matured in this season. And you are the body appointed to gather these fruits and to make a forward-looking reflection. I encourage you in this work, I pray that it will be fruitful and from now on I am grateful to you."

https://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiv/ ... inodo.html

[peregrinator]

Just like the last 4 Popes, Leo is a moderate

The idea that Francis was a moderate is risible.

You sure seem to like that word.

Yes, using it twice in the course of a few weeks definitely means I like it I suppose I could have said "comical" or "laughable" instead.

What marked Paul VI as a radical wasn't that he alienated "the right" while pandering to "the left" (although that's largely what he did), but rather that he introduced so many changes during his Pontificate that it undermined the legacy of his predecessors and thus, the credibility of the Papacy (and the Church) itself. So this is the standard by which I say that Francis was not a moderate. Francis may have alienated both "right" and "left" but he alienated "the right" by being a progressive, and "the left" by not being progressive enough - not at all because he was a "middle of the road" moderate (he wasn't).

[Highlander]

Would it be reasonable to take the position that Leo seems to have a direction, but that the direction is unclear and that it is too early to see which direction it is?

[anawim]

Would it be reasonable to take the position that Leo seems to have a direction, but that the direction is unclear and that it is too early to see which direction it is?

So far, he seems to be going out of his way not to be pigeon-holed.