Pete Rose RIP

[Doom]

I vividly remember the day Pete Rose was banned from baseball by Fay Vincent. It was his successor, Bud Selig, who made the entirely arbitrary and capricious decision that banned players cannot be admitted to the Hall of Fame. A rule that seems to have been invented solely to keep Pete Rose out. But if the all-time hits leader is not in the Hall of Fame perhaps Coopertown should have a gigantic asterisk attached to it.

And here we are 35 years after his ban, Pete Rose dead, and still, the decision to deny him admission has never been reconsidered. Why does the commissioner of baseball have this kind of absolute, completely arbitrary authority? The commissioner represents, and has always represented, the interests of the owners, they could care less about the players, who are the source of the revenue for the league.


Isn't it time for a new power-sharing arrangement? If the commissioner represents the owners, there needs to be someone equally powerful and influential who represents the players. "Owners vs players" is not a good dynamic for baseball.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

The commissioner has that authority because of the Black Sox. And the owners will never, ever consent to a power-sharing arrangement. All of the major sports work this way.

BTW, the HoF ban did not come from the Commissioner. MLB does not own or run the Hall of Fame.

[peregrinator]

It was Bart Giamatti who banned Rose initially.

[Doom]

It was Bart Giamatti who banned Rose initially.

Yes, and Giamatti told Rose that after some time, he would be allowed to apply for reinstatement, a reversed decision. And Giamatti didn't ban Rose, he reached a compromise where Rose withdrew from the league voluntarily with the option of a later reinstatement, which was taken away after Giamatti died.

[Doom]

The commissioner has that authority because of the Black Sox. And the owners will never, ever consent to a power-sharing arrangement. All of the major sports work this way.

BTW, the HoF ban did not come from the Commissioner. MLB does not own or run the Hall of Fame.

The other leagues have a player's association, which exerts considerable influence. Baseball is the only sports league that has an official congressional exemption from anti-trust law, this is what prevents reform, indeed if that anti-trust exemption was repealed, as it needs to be, the mere fact that the commissioner is himself an owner would be regarded as illegal collusion. And the rule against banned players from being in the Hall of League was still invented out of whole cloth in 1989 to keep Pete Rose out.

[peregrinator]

It was Bart Giamatti who banned Rose initially.

Yes, and Giamatti told Rose that after some time, he would be allowed to apply for reinstatement, a reversed decision. And Giamatti didn't ban Rose, he reached a compromise where Rose withdrew from the league voluntarily with the option of a later reinstatement, which was taken away after Giamatti died.

There was always the option of reinstatement, even under Vincent (he just never acted on Rose's application for reinstatement).

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

From an article in The Athletic:

In 2002, his friends, Mike Schmidt and Joe Morgan, arranged a secret meeting between Rose and Bud Selig, then the commissioner of baseball. The Hit King had to know he would never have a greater opportunity than this one.

Selig spelled out what baseball expected of him if the league was even going to consider adjusting his life sentence. Rose would need to stop gambling — all the gambling. He would need to stop hanging out at all those casinos and racetracks.

And finally, there was this: He would need to hold a press conference — to admit to his “crime,” to admit that yes, he’d bet on baseball, to apologize to everyone he’d betrayed and to promise none of this would ever happen again. They shook hands. And then …

Rose walked out of that meeting and headed directly for an appearance at a sports book in Las Vegas. The commissioner and those around him were furious. Rose’s fate was sealed forever that day. It’s hard to argue it was anyone’s fault except his own.

[Doom]

I care far less about the ban than about the exclusion from the Hall of Fame. There was no rule against banned players until
Pete Rose became eligible, and then a rule was invented. That was petty and spiteful, especially since players who got caught using steroids in the early 2000s are in there. Steroids is a much bigger problem than gambling.

[peregrinator]

especially since players who got caught using steroids in the early 2000s are in there

Who?

[peregrinator]

From an article in The Athletic:

In 2002, his friends, Mike Schmidt and Joe Morgan, arranged a secret meeting between Rose and Bud Selig, then the commissioner of baseball. The Hit King had to know he would never have a greater opportunity than this one.

Selig spelled out what baseball expected of him if the league was even going to consider adjusting his life sentence. Rose would need to stop gambling — all the gambling. He would need to stop hanging out at all those casinos and racetracks.

And finally, there was this: He would need to hold a press conference — to admit to his “crime,” to admit that yes, he’d bet on baseball, to apologize to everyone he’d betrayed and to promise none of this would ever happen again. They shook hands. And then …

Rose walked out of that meeting and headed directly for an appearance at a sports book in Las Vegas. The commissioner and those around him were furious. Rose’s fate was sealed forever that day. It’s hard to argue it was anyone’s fault except his own.

I think it's silly to make reinstatement contingent on not doing what regular citizens can do.

[Peetem]

especially since players who got caught using steroids in the early 2000s are in there

Who?

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/spor ... 20America.

"Professional baseball is not short on controversy in its 148-year history.

From drugs to gambling, Major League Baseball has dealt with notable scandals. Now, it is looking into another surrounding the top player in the sport."

[peregrinator]

I'm asking who the PED users in the Hall of Fame are

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

None of the known steroid users is in the Hall, nor likely to be there in the near future. Big Papi is in as someone who is on the 2003 list, but with plenty of reasonable doubt as to whether he was actually using.

[Peetem]

Pete should have exhibited humility. If he had, he'd been forgiven and in the hall.

[peregrinator]

I think if it weren't for Bart Giamatti's untimely death, and his replacement with Fay Vincent, Rose's permanent ban would have been lifted.